06.23.07
Disagreement with Riverside
Hello Everyone,
By now you probably know that I have had a disagreement with Riverside on a biblical issue. I want to make sure that everyone knows what it is about. I have quoted sections from a string of e-mails between the associate pastor of the church, a member of Riverside, and myself.
My main disagreement was and I quote from my original e-mail to the member of Riverside:
You see, they (Christians) are judging between holding on to a relationship with an unbeliever and telling that same person the truth about Jesus and then they are actually choosing the relationship over the gospel of Jesus in fear of losing them as a “friend”. THIS IS NOT RIGHT AND IT SHOULD NOT BE SO!!! Should it? Tell me where I am going wrong???
My contention is that those “friends” are lost already in God’s eyes and that we MUST share the gospel to gain them as a brother or sister and a TRUE “Friend”.
Let me quote from Charles Spurgeon, known as the Prince of Preachers:
“Answering a student’s question, ‘Will the heathen who have not heard the Gospel be saved?’ thus, ‘It is more a question with me whether we, who have the Gospel and fail to give it to those who have not, can be saved.”
“Have you no wish for others to be saved? Then you are not saved yourself. Be sure of that.”
~ Charles Spurgeon
I want to make it clear that I am not, and never was, saying that we should not associate with those who do not believe. I have said very clearly that we should associate with them with the intent of witnessing and evangelizing. We can’t hang out with them and play games and never be about our Father’s business though. I made this very clear in my original e-mail as you can see and I quote…
I full well believe that we HAVE TO ASSOCIATE with unbelievers but when that relationship goes beyond an “association” and turns into a “friendship” it is deeper.
The question the Holy Spirit is asking, is what is your friendship built upon? What does a believer have in common with an unbeliever?
IT CANNOT POSSIBLY BE CHRIST, BECAUSE THEY ARE UNBELIEVERS. AND ANYTHING NOT BUILT ON THE ROCK WILL NOT STAND!!! Right???
Jesus was not “bound” or “yoked” to satan was He? NO! Although Jesus had to associate with satan, and not to mention the people that satan was living in or possessing, while He lived in this world, and it is clear that Jesus did not befriend them!!! He was accused of it by the Pharisees…. But He condemned their accusations.
He rather reproved the devil in their presence and always was about the Father’s will!!!
When He associated with the people of satan, He exposed the deeds of their father (satan), the ruler of this world, and then gave them the good news of the gospel.
He didn’t just hang out with them and then conveniently “forget” to mention His Father!!!
He did NOT befriend them unless they repented and therefore were no longer “unbelievers” but “believers“
This does not mean he ceased His “associations” with them but it is obvious that His deeper relationships are reserved for BELIEVERS. Jesus calls “us” His Brothers and Sisters and we call His Father, our Father. Unbelievers cannot do so!!! They are not “yoked” or “bound” to Jesus in this way. We live for our Father… They are perishing because they reject our Father and our Lord…
The intent of the passage was never stop us from associating with the unbeliever, speaking to him or her about Christ, or dealing with them at the Supermarket, at work, or elsewhere, but as for an intimate friendship with the people of this world, it is simply impossible.
(This is a reference to 2 Cor. 6:14-18) Light and darkness cannot exist at the same time in the same place. They are complete opposites. Righteousness and lawlessness are complete opposites, a man cannot be Righteous and yet lawless at the same time. Christ and satan are complete opposites, and a believer and a non-believer are indeed COMPLETE OPPOSITES, they live for two totally separate reasons!
If your son, one day gives his life for the country, could you then tolerate so called “friends” in your home that mock him and care not about his sacrifice? Don’t they trample under their feet, the blood of his sacrifice?
I certainly could not tolerate it, I would, with all my heart, tell them of his sacrifice and plead with them to change their mind and attitude about my son but if they did not, they would no longer exist in my home. If I must associate with them because of circumstance, then I must, but certainly they would offend me regarding my son’s sacrifice and therefore we could never have a “friendship” but only a mere “association”.
Likewise, when we speak to unbelievers regarding Jesus and His sacrifice, and they deny him and “continue sinning willfully” thus “insulting the spirit of Grace” and “trampling Jesus under their feet” it upsets me.
More importantly it upsets the Father in heaven who gave His Son and sacrificed Him.
His blood was shed. He was crushed. It is not a game and it is not to be taken lightly.
The example I gave above about losing your son was an extreme example. However, THAT EXTREME DID TAKE PLACE WITH JESUS!!
So what now, do we eat and laugh with those who mock His Son’s sacrifice without saying as much as a word of Truth about Jesus?
Consider this text about an unbeliever, one who rejects the truth:
Heb 10:26-31
26 For if we go on sinning willfully after receiving the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, 27 but a certain terrifying expectation of judgment, and the fury of a fire which will consume the adversaries. 28 Anyone who has set aside the Law of Moses dies without mercy on the testimony of two or three witnesses. 29 How much severer punishment do you think he will deserve who has trampled under foot the Son of God, and has regarded as unclean the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified, and has insulted the Spirit of grace? 30 For we know Him who said, “Vengeance is Mine, I will repay.” And again, “The Lord will judge His people.” 31 It is a terrifying thing to fall into the hands of the living God.
NASB
Certainly our Father in heaven is very angry with those who do not understand what His Son has sacrificed, or maybe they do know and they do not care, and the terrible thing is that they go on “sinning willfully” after they have heard the truth and because of this they have “insulted the Spirit of Grace”.
So what then do we say, do we, as adopted sons of God, then befriend those whom our Father is angry with? Those who mock His Son and do not esteem the blood that was shed for them?
I don’t think so…We must always tell them of what is truly going on and if they believe you then you have won a brother or a sister and if they do not, then they have insulted the Spirit of grace.
However, I would not cease from telling them the Truth even after they denied the Truth, even day and night, as long as my heart could suffer it, but how can I befriend someone that my Father is not happy with?
For example, Just end up saying, “Oh Well, they don’t believe God actually crushed His only Son on the Cross for them, I guess we can go on playing games and forgot this Jesus stuff.”
Even if I apply this to earthly things it makes sense… If my dad had a SERIOUS disagreement with a man and I befriended that same man, and went over to his house, and “hung out”, and we laughed and joked, and the whole time I full well knew the disagreement between them, but all the while I ignored it, and my dad watched me going in and out of his house, smiling as though I do not care about his will nor the SERIOUSNESS of the disagreement at hand, would that not hurt my earthly father?
How much more does it hurt our heavenly Father?
Now if I went to the same man’s house and pleaded my dad’s case with everything that is in me, with the sole intent of reconciling the differences between them, would that not please my earthly father?
How much more would it please our heavenly Father?
As I indicated earlier, that entire portion of text above was all quoted from my original e-mail (except what is inside the black parenthesis) and I have not reworded any of it.
Of course, the response to my original e-mail was further disagreement by the member of Riverside with no clear reason as to why.
We decided to meet with the associate Pastor at Riverside. The pastor, without any biblical reference, disagreed with me. I gave him plenty of biblical references that he chose to ignore.
He basically disagreed and told me that I should listen to him because he is in authority over me. With all due to respect to him and all others who believe they have authority over one’s soul, they did not die for me or anyone else for that matter. Jesus is Lord alone. The authority spoken of in Scripture is not one of forcing people to go against the written words of God.
They, at times, contradict what God tells us in the Bible and then they want us to submit to their false doctrines as though God is giving them authority to force one into believing something contrary to His word.
This is the truth, Jesus died for our souls and He alone is in control of the true Christians life, not your pastor. He has sent us the Holy Spirit to teach us ALL THINGS and we have no need for anyone else to do so (That is, if you believe the Scriptures). Fallible men WILL mislead you eventually, the written word of God never has, and never will, mislead.
1 John 2:26-27
26 These things I have written to you concerning those who are trying to deceive you. 27 And as for you, the anointing which you received from Him abides in you, and you have no need for anyone to teach you; but as His anointing teaches you about all things, and is true and is not a lie, and just as it has taught you, you abide in Him.
NASB
I want to use a quote from Martin Luther that we all should at least learn the concept of:
“Unless I am convicted by Scripture and plain reason—I do not accept the authority of popes and councils, for they have contradicted each other—my conscience is captive to the Word of God. I cannot and will not recant anything, for to go against conscience is neither right nor safe. Here I stand, I cannot do otherwise. God help me. Amen.”
What the associate pastor is asking me to do is to go against Scripture, Reason, and my conscience. This I cannot and will not do.
Although I have two topical Bibles which address “fellowship” neither of them provides one reference for encouraging the believer to befriend the unbeliever.
They have topics within their pages which read “FELLOWSHIP WITH THE WICKED FORBIDDEN” and “THE EVIL OF FELLOWSHIP WITH THE WICKED EXEMPLIFIED” and “INSTANCES OF THOSE WHO AVOIDED FELLOWSHIP WITH THE WICKED”.
Each title provided me with many Scriptures and examples that affirm my point of view.
So I asked the pastor what his biblical reference was for his position was in an e-mail and I will quote from e-mail
Chris,
During our meeting I recalled in the beginning you said you actually encouraged believers in the congregation to have a couple of unbelieving friends. I was wondering if you had a biblical reference for such an encouragement?
Wesley Edwards
His reply:
Wesley,
Good to hear from you and in answer to your question, maybe the following might help:
- 1. Matthew 11:19 They accused Jesus as being ‘a friend of tax-gatherers and sinners!’
- 2. Luke 7:34 ‘friend of tax-gatherers and sinners’ - there was something about Jesus’ lifestyle that he was seen as one who mixed with and befriended the sinners.
Trust this helps!
I found this unbelievable because when you read these passages IN CONTEXT they are full of false accusations against Jesus, the Christ. The same passage calls Jesus a Drunkard, and a Gluttonous Man, as well as calling John the Baptist, demon possessed.
The same passage indicates that wisdom will vindicate Jesus, or in other words, clear Him of these accusations (which is the definition in the dictionary of the word “Vindicate”).
So it is obvious, and not to mention, common sense, that the accusations are not true. Those of you that I have talked with already see this as very obvious. Here is the passage in its entirety…
Luke 7:33-35
33 “For John the Baptist has come eating no bread and drinking no wine; and you say, ‘He has a demon!’ 34 “The Son of Man has come eating and drinking; and you say, ‘Behold, a gluttonous man, and a drunkard, a friend of tax-gatherers and sinners!’ 35 “Yet wisdom is vindicated by all her children.”
NASB
I wrote Him back to express this concern and to reason with him to restate his position… I am quoting from the middle of my e-mail:
If we say Jesus was a “friend of sinners” then we conclude that the accusations are true, and then He also is a drunkard and a gluttonous Man and John the Baptist had a demon (God forbid). Certainly none of those things are true so we can conclude that Jesus was not a friend of sinners, as well as He was not a drunkard, or a gluttonous Man, nor did John have a demon….
In fact, the Holy Spirit wrote in Hebrews 7:26 that He was “separated from sinners”.
Heb 7:26
26 For it was fitting that we should have such a high priest, holy, innocent, undefiled, separated from sinners and exalted above the heavens;
NASB
The pastor has since used two other references in his blog…Luke 7:36-48 and Luke 15:2. Unbelievably, they both are accusations of a Pharisee. I think the pastor would have gotten along with the pharisee’s well because he certainly beats their drum on this subject (figuratively, of course).
It is important to note in Luke 7:36-48 that Jesus refers to the woman as “Forgiven” and the Pharisee refers to her as a “sinner”. The pastor fails to realize that the woman was experiencing conversion from a sinner to a saint and therefore her broken contrite heart (Which is why she was crying) makes her the righteousness of Christ. Not to mention Jesus wasn’t “hangin out” with her and not being about His Father’s business, which if you remember was the point of this conversation in the first place. So all in all, there are 3 texts, all of which are accusations of Pharisees, which are being used as proof.
I can assure you that using the words of Pharisee’s is not the safest way to form your doctrines.
To say the least, I am disappointed. True Christians will eventually accept the Truth of any given matter whenever they see it rather than defending their pride. Perhaps he will do this at some point in time and that is my prayer.
Prov 10:17
17 He is on the path of life who heeds instruction, But he who forsakes reproof goes astray.
NASB
I myself have been reproved many times but only by Scripture and Plain Reason and Conscience, all of which seem to have been denied up to this point in this conversation with the associate pastor at Riverside.
I want you to pray for the pastor, that his ministry is blessed, and also that God opens all of our eyes to the Truth!
Please feel free to contact me regarding this e-mail…
In Christ,
Related Articles
Was Jesus a Friend of Sinners?
Was Jesus a Friend of Sinners - Part 2?
Why Won’t You Witness for Jesus Christ?
Are You A Witness to What Jesus Christ Has Done?
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